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Weddings: The newest form of exploitation
Lolest!
#101 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2013 9:00:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,068
Location: Kianjokoma
@CLK, wewe ni socket? Btw u gave so much detail mpaka if that buddy of yours saw it they will identify you. That thing of guys becoming aloof is kawa...no calls even. You attend a guy's ruracio, comittee, wedding, give generously then when your time comes he doesn't attend any of your events! Never mind he is far richer during your wedding season.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
maka
#102 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2013 9:15:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
CLK wrote:
what i hate most about this is those college friends who have not talked to you since you graduated, then they 'friend' you on facebook, go like 'you are so lost, we need to hook up for coffee' at this coffee date, the bomb shell is dropped, am getting married and i want you to be in my committee, i would prefer this 'am pregnant, and i want you to be my child's godmother/father.
Nowadays i wonder why anyone who ha snot bothered to look for me for the last 10 yrs wants us to meet for coffee or drinks out of the blue.

For women its even worse, you are in the wedding committee, will have to get her a gift for her bridal shower, then a hen's night at the penthouse at Hotel Sankara, then you are one of the maids, spend some money on specific shoes she wants her cousin to bring from UK, a dress that Omondi will stitch but will cost 8k, then a wedding gift, then come the baby, a baby shower, then you go visit the baby with flowers at the hospital and for every subsequent birthday, this one has a happy ending.....
There are those after the wedding who will disappear and 'unfriend' you on facebook, or stop talking to you and when you check, utaambiwa 'you know am married now, so i have to stay home and also hang around married people, my partner thinks single women/men will derail me.

Now i have horror stories abt committees, my friend bought a hse immediately after the honeymoon, i still pay rent . This one made a mistake of showing me a foto of the 248k seats they wanted to buy for their new house,i withdrew my pledge instantly, we do not talk.

Now since the initial cases of being used/conned i say outright i do not do wedding committees, suffice to say very few of those i say NO to send me the actual wedding invitation.

I hope and pray that when the time comes, i will fund my wedding fully together with my other half, else AG or the early morning thing, so help me God...

Better idea, while dating we save for the wedding religiously for one year, get hitched at the AG or in church with maid of honor and best man, then parents. Lunch for everyone and a few speeches. Hope onto a plane go for a honeymoon for a whole month with the savings, why would i want to feed masses that will end up criticizing how they only got Mchele na maharagwe at my wedding???




very true..
possunt quia posse videntur
Amores
#103 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2013 9:49:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/25/2011
Posts: 2,102
Location: Nrb
Lolest! wrote:
@CLK, wewe ni socket? Btw u gave so much detail mpaka if that buddy of yours saw it they will identify you. That thing of guys becoming aloof is kawa...no calls even. You attend a guy's ruracio, comittee, wedding, give generously then when your time comes he doesn't attend any of your events! Never mind he is far richer during your wedding season.


I always laugh when people use that word....but if she is,i forgive her for that meltdown on that thread about the fraudster.

On matters weddings,the ceremonies are overrated and yes a lot of exploitation on all sides,the guy is exploited,the parents,workmates,the bride,friends,yaani stress.When i do my wedding,it will a simple but classy thing,no stress and since God has blassed me,i will finance everything(if things remain the way they are)
I am happy
Rankaz13
#104 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2013 10:06:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/21/2013
Posts: 2,841
Location: Here
Lolest! wrote:
Rankaz13 wrote:
Forester wrote:
While at it, what is reasonable dowry to pay for a Meru chic according to their traditions? I know of a guy who's been asked for over 0.5M. Ata kama dowry haishangi...seriously?!!!


For the record, I don't advocate for payment of dowry and I don't intend to. To me, this is just another form of culturally sanctioned extortion.

pay the extortionists today but don't turn into one when your time as a girl's dad comes. Be the change you want to see.


I intend to neither pay nor demand for it myself. It surely cannot be that the only reason we uphold some obscure cultural practices is because 'tulikuta kunafanywa hivyo', nope. Culture is itself dynamic, not static.
Life is like playing a violin solo in public and learning the instrument as one goes on.
qadaffi
#105 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2013 10:54:43 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/8/2009
Posts: 67
2 Miles wrote:


Problem is ..... thats what some ladies want. This shows on TV are dangerous. They want their weddings to also appear on TV looking glamourous. No wonder some dudes look distraught..


You are spot on!

If you are a dude dating such a lady, she is the wrong one for you! And if you go ahead and entertain such expectations, you will be in a stressful marriage. Ten years ago, my wedding cost us Ksh 70,000 which my First Lady and I jointly put together, over SEVERAL months (that gives you an idea of our economic situation). The moment I discussed with my First Lady (i.e no committee, just invite friends that we can feed from that amount, no expensive gowns, a simple ceremony in church and reception at same venue) and she said she believes in a wedding which she and her man have saved up for, I knew she was the ONE!

Right now I can afford to take her to some fairly good holiday places (using what we have gathered from God's blessings and our sweat). In my view if two people are getting married, they should meet the cost of the whole thing. If you can afford 10K, very well. If you can afford 10M, do it - it is your money, just don't ask anybody to fork out a shilling. Ten years ago, it just was not possible for us to put together a shilling above 70K for a wedding (because we also had other priorities immediately following the ceremony).

The "*friends*" who came for the wedding remarked how cheap everything was and what a shady wedding it was but the "TRUE FRIENDS" were okay with it and these guys have been a permanent feature of our married life since then.

People forget. After that impressive show of a few hours on a Saturday, there are years and years of tough times and happy times.
McReggae
#106 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2013 11:02:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
I see very one sided arguments here......Mutula died the other day and in minutes millions were collected for his burial.....it really depends on your crew (and I mean not the far fetched facebook friends).......if the individual is your crew I see no problem contributing to his need of the day....today he wants a wedding and then you talk the shyt guys are spewing here, what happens when the next day one of your folks needs an urgent medical attention and you have to fund raise?....be holisitic in your reasoning majamaa!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
Rankaz13
#107 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2013 11:39:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/21/2013
Posts: 2,841
Location: Here
McReggae wrote:
I see very one sided arguments here......Mutula died the other day and in minutes millions were collected for his burial.....it really depends on your crew (and I mean not the far fetched facebook friends).......if the individual is your crew I see no problem contributing to his need of the day....today he wants a wedding and then you talk the shyt guys are spewing here, what happens when the next day one of your folks needs an urgent medical attention and you have to fund raise?....be holisitic in your reasoning majamaa!!!!


You missed the boat by a river on this one. I wanna imagine, from the comments made here, no one will begrudge you that million-shilling wedding ceremony so long as you can afford it. The point is, don't expect us (or indeed your other acquaintances) to finance your ostentatious consumption. A wedding isn't an emergency after all, it is something one can plan, and therefore save towards.

On matters to do with death and ill health, those are, by their nature almost always emergencies and therefore difficult to plan for. Even the best of health policies has its limits. Personally, I wouldn't mind contributing toward offsetting medical bills or to a bereaved family. Where I however draw the line (and many wazuans probably do too) is where our friends take advantage of that friendship to coerce me to contribute to what is, essentially, their dream.
Life is like playing a violin solo in public and learning the instrument as one goes on.
qadaffi
#108 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2013 11:41:36 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/8/2009
Posts: 67
McReggae wrote:
I see very one sided arguments here......Mutula died the other day and in minutes millions were collected for his burial.....it really depends on your crew (and I mean not the far fetched facebook friends).......if the individual is your crew I see no problem contributing to his need of the day....today he wants a wedding and then you talk the shyt guys are spewing here, what happens when the next day one of your folks needs an urgent medical attention and you have to fund raise?....be holisitic in your reasoning majamaa!!!!


In my view, weddings which are above the means of the two love-birds are neither urgent nor do they fall in the category of medical emergencies. The parasitism that characterizes most of the wedding committees essentially amounts to using friends to fund symbolic luxuries. Willing contributions are OK but should not be expected or be the basis of funding 100% the wedding and especially when the 2 people getting married are not willing to even put something on the table i.e. kusindikizwa.
McReggae
#109 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2013 11:44:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
qadaffi wrote:
McReggae wrote:
I see very one sided arguments here......Mutula died the other day and in minutes millions were collected for his burial.....it really depends on your crew (and I mean not the far fetched facebook friends).......if the individual is your crew I see no problem contributing to his need of the day....today he wants a wedding and then you talk the shyt guys are spewing here, what happens when the next day one of your folks needs an urgent medical attention and you have to fund raise?....be holisitic in your reasoning majamaa!!!!


In my view, weddings which are above the means of the two love-birds are neither urgent nor do they fall in the category of medical emergencies. The parasitism that characterizes most of the wedding committees essentially amounts to using friends to fund symbolic luxuries. Willing contributions are OK but should not be expected or be the basis of funding 100% the wedding and especially when the 2 people getting married are not willing to even put something on the table i.e. kusindikizwa.


Which type of friends do some people have yawa???

I agree you can't compare the two but do you think you will come yapping in wazua about your friends' weddings and then the so called friends will respond to your medical emergencies....the point for me is to choose and know you friends well...whatever the circumstances!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
Mukiri
#110 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 12:06:03 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
washiku wrote:
...is in August, God willing. As they say, knowledge is power. If you have any advise, warnings, experiences worth sharing, or any other such; both for the wedding and for the marriage, please share...

Judging from the comments herein, @Wamapisha is not getting anything from WazuaSad

Proverbs 19:21
Zanze
#111 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 4:01:54 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/1/2013
Posts: 106
Last year I attended a very simple jungu wedding. The ceremony was at a kasmall church and the reception in a backyard ... the tables were set up well, they had nice flowers and the food was really good. It felt more like a party than the showy events I normally attend. Since the two had been living together for a while and have enough thermoses and duvets, they indicated that instead of normal wedding gifts, they were accepting funds to top-up their down payment for their new home.

If any of my friends asked this of me instead of joining their wedding committees to give money for flashy weddings that last one stressful day, I'd gladly contribute.
harrydre
#112 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 6:23:20 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,127
Location: Kanjo
people should fund their own goddamn weddings dammit! This idea of nominating people to committees and expecting them to raise an x amt of money is no different from a begging on the street!! if u can't afford it, don't do it or save towards one in the future.Shame on you

i.am.back!!!!
CLK
#113 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 8:32:25 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 846
McReggae wrote:
I see very one sided arguments here......Mutula died the other day and in minutes millions were collected for his burial.....it really depends on your crew (and I mean not the far fetched facebook friends).......if the individual is your crew I see no problem contributing to his need of the day....today he wants a wedding and then you talk the shyt guys are spewing here, what happens when the next day one of your folks needs an urgent medical attention and you have to fund raise?....be holisitic in your reasoning majamaa!!!!



Weddings are not emergencies, death and sickness i contribute, even to strangers, i pay fees for orphans. But for someone to show off for a few hours with my money??? Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you
CLK
#114 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 8:34:12 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 846
Amores wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
@CLK, wewe ni socket? Btw u gave so much detail mpaka if that buddy of yours saw it they will identify you. That thing of guys becoming aloof is kawa...no calls even. You attend a guy's ruracio, comittee, wedding, give generously then when your time comes he doesn't attend any of your events! Never mind he is far richer during your wedding season.


I always laugh when people use that word....but if she is,i forgive her for that meltdown on that thread about the fraudster.

On matters weddings,the ceremonies are overrated and yes a lot of exploitation on all sides,the guy is exploited,the parents,workmates,the bride,friends,yaani stress.When i do my wedding,it will a simple but classy thing,no stress and since God has blassed me,i will finance everything(if things remain the way they are)


apology accepted, yes i am a socket, guess no one remembers Mbuzi 1 or was it Mbuzi 2??
CLK
#115 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 8:39:38 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 846
all my friends and acquaintances have seen this #stolen letter


Dear Friend,

I refuse to be part of your wedding committee. I got your invitation card to the committee. I see you quoted an amount that I am expected to contribute. I must say that I feel honored that you remember me. It has been years since the last time we spoke. I remember we used to be in the same school, and we recently befriended each other on Facebook. However, friend, I must say that this came as a surprise to me.

You see, I am unable to afford a wife myself. I have been planning to get a lady and head to the A.G chambers. I hear it will cost me very little money. I see that your wife is trying to keep up with the Kardashians. It is a dream wedding that she wants. If you are able to afford that, my friend, it will be a very good thing to do. But, kindly do not tie me to financial obligations when mine are choking me.

The current economic times have put a rope around everyone’s neck. I cannot afford 1,000/- as contribution towards your wedding. I am willing, more than willing to be a service provider- to oversee pitching of tents, directing guests to the sitting places, showing them the little rooms, collecting gifts. I am willing to attend the committee to pray for your marriage. I am willing to attend your wedding. I am willing to do all this. Friends need friends. But friends don’t exploit friends.

I saw a facebook group you had created earlier as well- something about a goat eating party in preparation for ruracio (pre-wedding). You will forgive me, because the first thing I thought was: what a money collecting idea! I could push myself and bring you a gift on your wedding day. It is a noble thing to do. However, I will not buy you a wife, help you wed her in an expensive ceremony, then stock your house. I often tell people to live within their means. I know you will thank me someday.

All I am saying is a wedding, a luxurious one in this case is not for you if you cannot afford three quarter of the money required. If I were a bad person, I would have told you not to ask me to help you marry because I am not gonna sleep with her. But see, I explained myself as politely as I could.

Ubarikiwe lakini....
chepkel
#116 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 9:57:44 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/6/2010
Posts: 741
Location: Nairobi
That Marriage Bill should have said something about the Wedding Show. That's where the problem starts!!!!!
chepkel
#117 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 10:07:23 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/6/2010
Posts: 741
Location: Nairobi
Rankaz13 wrote:
Forester wrote:
While at it, what is reasonable dowry to pay for a Meru chic according to their traditions? I know of a guy who's been asked for over 0.5M. Ata kama dowry haishangi...seriously?!!!


For the record, I don't advocate for payment of dowry and I don't intend to. To me, this is just another form of culturally sanctioned extortion.


Dowry is a great cultural thing. It is modernity that has mutated the idea to an extent that it has become a form of extortion.

Payment of Dowry signifies that the new Husband is capable of taking care of his new bride and appreciates her worth.

In Kalenjin culture, dowry is usually in the form of cows, goats and sheep. And Kales do not extort (at least most of them). I recently went to my friend's Koito (thats pre-wedding in Kalenjin) and the dowry was negotiated to 4 cows which I think is quite reasonable. Plus most times, the husband is not expected to pay the dowry all at once as he will be given ample time (even after a wedding has already happened). Kalenjins will never ask for money.
Rankaz13
#118 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 10:27:39 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/21/2013
Posts: 2,841
Location: Here
chepkel wrote:
Rankaz13 wrote:
Forester wrote:
While at it, what is reasonable dowry to pay for a Meru chic according to their traditions? I know of a guy who's been asked for over 0.5M. Ata kama dowry haishangi...seriously?!!!


For the record, I don't advocate for payment of dowry and I don't intend to. To me, this is just another form of culturally sanctioned extortion.


Dowry is a great cultural thing. It is modernity that has mutated the idea to an extent that it has become a form of extortion.

Payment of Dowry signifies that the new Husband is capable of taking care of his new bride and appreciates her worth.

In Kalenjin culture, dowry is usually in the form of cows, goats and sheep. And Kales do not extort (at least most of them). I recently went to my friend's Koito (thats pre-wedding in Kalenjin) and the dowry was negotiated to 4 cows which I think is quite reasonable. Plus most times, the husband is not expected to pay the dowry all at once as he will be given ample time (even after a wedding has already happened). Kalenjins will never ask for money.


In days gone by, especially amongst agricultural communities, dowry was often given to the woman's clan to compensate them for losing their source of labor since then agriculture was mainly labor intensive. In addition, the woman, upon marriage, would bear children who would themselves be a source of labor to the man's clan. For this reason then, dowry was seen as a form of 'compensation' to the lady's clan.

However, in today's world, our economic activities have long since diversified beyond manual agriculture and we no longer live in clan-based kind of systems, save for some of us. In our world today, both men and women work and earn an income so the issue of compensation really is moot. After all, being married doesn't stop us from assisting our needy relatives back at home.

Additionally, one of the arguments commonly advanced to support dowry payment, eti tumelea na tukafunza msichana wetu is itself built on quicksand. I was also brought up and educated byy parents, who is to say they also don't deserve to be thanked?
Life is like playing a violin solo in public and learning the instrument as one goes on.
chepkel
#119 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 10:49:10 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/6/2010
Posts: 741
Location: Nairobi
Rankaz13 wrote:
chepkel wrote:
Rankaz13 wrote:
Forester wrote:
While at it, what is reasonable dowry to pay for a Meru chic according to their traditions? I know of a guy who's been asked for over 0.5M. Ata kama dowry haishangi...seriously?!!!


For the record, I don't advocate for payment of dowry and I don't intend to. To me, this is just another form of culturally sanctioned extortion.


Dowry is a great cultural thing. It is modernity that has mutated the idea to an extent that it has become a form of extortion.

Payment of Dowry signifies that the new Husband is capable of taking care of his new bride and appreciates her worth.

In Kalenjin culture, dowry is usually in the form of cows, goats and sheep. And Kales do not extort (at least most of them). I recently went to my friend's Koito (thats pre-wedding in Kalenjin) and the dowry was negotiated to 4 cows which I think is quite reasonable. Plus most times, the husband is not expected to pay the dowry all at once as he will be given ample time (even after a wedding has already happened). Kalenjins will never ask for money.


In days gone by, especially amongst agricultural communities, dowry was often given to the woman's clan to compensate them for losing their source of labor since then agriculture was mainly labor intensive. In addition, the woman, upon marriage, would bear children who would themselves be a source of labor to the man's clan. For this reason then, dowry was seen as a form of 'compensation' to the lady's clan.

However, in today's world, our economic activities have long since diversified beyond manual agriculture and we no longer live in clan-based kind of systems, save for some of us. In our world today, both men and women work and earn an income so the issue of compensation really is moot. After all, being married doesn't stop us from assisting our needy relatives back at home.

Additionally, one of the arguments commonly advanced to support dowry payment, eti tumelea na tukafunza msichana wetu is itself built on quicksand. I was also brought up and educated byy parents, who is to say they also don't deserve to be thanked?


I definitely cannot argue with that!!

Personally i like the culture of Dowry, though not the one that transforms cows into cash. But one that celebrates a union and appreciates that wedding should not be an expensive venture. One where my Husband brings my father 3 cows and I get to give my dad and uncles blankets, and my mother and aunties lessos as they sing very many nice songs for me.
smano
#120 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 11:25:22 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/13/2006
Posts: 2,589
I'm headed that way in a few months and I believe we are saying the same thing in different ways, we seem to agree on most of the core issues.

I'm a firm believer that our wedding is our wedding and no one else's. So I have saved for my entire dowry but my close friends and relatives all want to escort me because I have also walked with them in the past. So I won't begrudge them the opportunity to do so, it would simply unafrican. The extra funds can go to other areas of the wedding preparation.

We have also saved for the wedding and do not want a committee until the last few months strictly for logistic purposes. Quite a number of friends are already asking to be in the committee since they want to play a part, and once again, we won't begrudge them.

If it was up to me I'd only invite close friends and close relaz but our two families are massive and there's a very set extended family social dynamic that we can't ignore....so you find your relatives and parent's friends for both us already number 200 - 300, and that is a modest estimate. That is when a wedding starts stressing a couple and you see them going to such lengths to keep up with the Macharia's whose wealthy parents funded the fairy tale wedding to the cent! Thankfully, ni vizuri kua mtu wa watu, as McDoba asks, who do you hang out with?

Anyway, the long and short of it is that a wedding is very personal but is a social event for genuine close friends and relatives who are genuinely happy for you. The rest who come to see whether it was as high profile as theirs or whatever, those will not be around when you're having a marriage...

I also believe if you have set a good foundation and have put yourself in good stead with the chic's family, there would be person's in the dowry negotiation who would be against you being taken advantage of as the guy. Maybe I'm naive but hayo ndio maoni yangu...
BEER IS LIVING PROOF THAT GOD LOVES US AND WANTS US TO BE HAPPY!
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